Cinétherapy: Ben Whishaw
"I'm quite fascinated by the idea of trying to understand things that are unpleasant, deviant or dark. I want to go more into characters who are unlikeable."
Ben Whishaw is a British actor. He has won great acclaim and awards for his roles on stage and screen. Equally at home in blockbusters and independent movies, he plays Q in three James Bond films (Skyfall, Spectre and No Time To Die), Mr Banks in Mary Poppins Returns and is the voice of Paddington in the beloved film series that began in 2014. At time of writing, he is on stage in London's West End (Waiting For Godot), Paddington In Peru is in cinemas and the new spy TV series Black Doves, in which he stars with Keira Knightley, is in Netflix's global top 10. His upcoming roles include the lead in two biopics: Limonov: The Ballad and Peter Hujars Day, the latter of which will premiere at the 2025 Sundance Festival in January and screen at the Berlin Film Festival in February.
What’s your earliest film memory?
The films that my dad must have taped off the television on our Betamax player. I remember in the 80s I watched Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs over and over again. And I was obsessed with Mary Poppins, and then I was obsessed with Oliver, the musical. I watched those three films in rotation just obsessively. I don't really have much memory of anything else until I was a bit older, then we watched lots of 80s films like The Goonies, which is a brilliant film.
Did your parents influence your taste in cinema?
They didn't influence my taste but we did go to the cinema and see the big blockbusters of the 80s and 90s. I remember going to Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves with my dad and my brother. I like some of those types of films now, but my interests have gone elsewhere.
Where was your local cinema growing up?
There was one in a town called Letchworth, just down the road from where I lived, and it is still there [the Broadway Cinema & Theatre]. It's a beautiful old cinema, but when I was a kid, it was one screen with stalls and a circle, and it was always empty. Now I think they've divided it up [into four screens]. But back then it was still massive and I remember the smell of it and the curtains and everything. It was beautiful and had an atmosphere about it.
What’s the most treasured piece of industry advice you’ve been given?
In the first big film I ever did, Perfume, I had some scenes with Dustin Hoffman, and I remember so distinctly that I was halfway through a take in a scene with him, and I messed up, or the scene wasn't going how I wanted it to go, and so I came out of the scene wanting for it to stop. And Dustin Hoffman said, “No, no, no, no, keep going. It's all about the mistakes.” And I didn't understand him at the time, but I do now. Mistakes are like gifts. What you didn't intend or plan is absolutely – well, not always, but frequently – much better than what you did intend, and you have to follow them. He was like, “Oh, you still think that you're a theater actor, that you're on stage. You think the camera rolls, and you've got to do it perfectly from beginning to end.” But it's not: you just go wrong and go from there, and then maybe something more interesting occurs. That was a very big lesson. I don't know whether I've managed to really live by it, but I have it in the back of my head somewhere, a lot.
What part of the creative process gives you the most pleasure?
Just the moment when you're in it with the other actors, and there's this kind of concentration, and you're just present with the scene as it's unfolding and everything else falls away. That's my favourite moment. I don't really like rehearsing. I find everything else around it quite terrifying and anxiety inducing. I like the doing of it.
What role are you most proud of?
I don't know. I actually have not seen many. I mean, I've seen some things I've been in, but there's lots that I have never seen.So I'm gonna say something about a film which I've not seen. Limonov: The Ballad, by the beautiful Russian director Kirill Serebrennikov. It's a film that divides people. I don't know if I do like my performance, but playing that role I went into something terrifying for myself. It felt new, like I'd survived something. Maybe because it was about a guy who was very complicated; in many ways an extremely unlikable person. It was very interesting for me to let go of being likable. I don't know whether I was successful, because I haven't seen it, but it was an interesting journey.
What’s one thing in a film that lights a fire in you?
This is really geeky, because it’s a scene in a film that not many people have seen, one of my favourite films, Love Streams by John Cassavetes. In it, Gena Rowlands – maybe my favourite actor ever, I adore her so much, she passed away this year – plays a character trying to make her estranged husband and her estranged daughter laugh. It's a dream sequence, and she does all sorts of silly things, and ends with a backflip into a swimming pool. It's absolutely riveting: daft, hilarious and joyous. I watch the scene a lot just to be inspired, because it seems totally improvised and there's something about watching Gena Rowlands do an extraordinary thing. You can watch the scene on YouTube, but the whole film should be seen.
Do you have any film-related art on your walls?
Only one thing like that: a picture of Gena Rowlands that my boyfriend gave me, and it's almost like an icon. I got it framed and it’s in my kitchen. She watches over me.
What is your favourite movie theatre in the world?
My local because I want to support it, but it truly is one of my favourites: the Rio in Dalston. Such a beautiful, beautifully designed cinema. Everything is curved, there's not a hard line in the whole place. I love it, I sometimes want to just go sit in there, because it's like being in a bubble or a womb. Just the most otherworldly, dreamy space, which I think is the kind of space you want to be in when you watch a movie. And, like the cinema from my childhood, it's got a smell of many people having been herded in and out and done all sorts of things in it. You know: life has gone on there. It's got the smell of ages in it, which I love.
Which era of cinema do you love the most?
For some reason, the 70s was just extraordinary, especially American cinema, was extraordinary, wasn't it? Such freedom and creativity, such radical work going on, even in mainstream cinema. It was pretty amazing. Also, when I was filming [Netflix spy series] Black Doves, as a sort of antidote I watched loads of films by the Japanese director Yasujirō Ozu, and I became obsessed with them for a few months. He covered quite a big span of time, from silent cinema into talkies.
Have you kept any pieces from a character’s wardrobe?
In a film I did called Passages, we had the most beautiful costume designer, Khadija Zeggaï, who did the most wonderful job on every character’s costumes. She gave me the whole wardrobe of my character, Martin. One piece I really love is a green jacket with one blue and one red pocket. I don't wear it very much because it feels too much like Martin’s. But I love that I have it and it's in my wardrobe. It's slightly tatty and fragile, but I treasure it.
Is there a film character’s sartorial style that you love?
This is not so much specifically to do with clothing, but more of a crush, actually. The actor Tony Leung. I just think he's so beautiful, and he has such a sense of something about him, a sense of style, which I think is completely not repeatable.
Which film have you watched the most?
I probably have watched Cassavetes’ films the most. I love them so much I sometimes just watch bits of them, not just Love Streams, but his body of work. I reference them a lot. And it's not like I can imitate them, but I do feel inspired. I feel inspired to be brave when I watch his films, to be wild and free, because he was so brave and all his actors were so beautiful.
What was the last thing someone told you to watch, and who recommended it?
I'm friends with the brilliant Austrian director Jessica Hausner – I was in her film Little Joe – and literally yesterday I saw her for lunch, and she recommended a film to me called Moon (2024) starring Florentina Holtzinger. I want to see it and I'm going to try and seek it out.
Which film best reflects your sense of humour?
There's so many I could say for this, but one that came to mind is a really gorgeous film called Toni Erdmann. I just adore the absurdity of its humour and how the director, Maren Ade, lets everything play out really awkwardly. I love it so much – and it doesn't tell you you've got to laugh, but you can laugh if you are tickled. There's a scene where [the actress] Sandra Fuller is naked and it’s pushed very far. And I like that a lot.
Since you’re starring in the Netflix thriller Black Doves – what are your favourite thrillers?
Klute is amazing, an absolutely riveting film. Jane Fonda is extraordinary in it. It has an amazing score also, and it's truly frightening, unsettling.
What is on your career bucket list?
Getting older as an actor is very interesting, and I think it's something to completely embrace. As you age, you have more to draw on, you get craggy and lined. I think people aging is beautiful. And I want to go more into characters who are unlikable. I'm quite fascinated by the idea of trying to understand things that are unpleasant, deviant or dark.
What films and performances are you enjoying this awards season?
I haven’t seen anything for months because I'm on stage every night [Waiting for Godot in London’s West End] . But I'm really excited to see The Substance. I really want to see the Almodóvar film [The Room Next Door] with Tilda Swinton and Julianne Moore, because I love them both. I need to see Anora. I'd like to see Conclave, because my friend Lucian Msamati, who I’m in the play with, is in it. Oh, and The Brutalist. The last film I saw in the cinema was called I Saw The TV Glow. Have you seen it?
Yes, on a date, and loved it.
It’s quite a strange thing to see on a date! But I thought it was fabulous. I loved both of those lead performances [Justice Smith and Brigette Lundy-Paine]. They were tremendous. Actually, very wild.
That film gets under your skin.
Yes, it does.
Which directors would you love to work with?
A Malaysian director based in Taiwan called Tsai Ming-liang. He's queer and makes these absolutely singular films. He has almost always used the one actor, [Lee Kang-sheng] over decades. The films are always queer or gay, about loneliness and desire, and they're incredibly, incredibly slow but also really deep and really beautiful and meditative and horny and dirty and strange. Anyway, I'm obsessed with him. There would be no universe in which we could work together, but I would love to.
You’ve worked again with Passengers director Ira Sachs on Peter Hujar’s Day, which will screen at Sundance in 2025. Hujar is one of my favourite artists, a struggling photographer who only received mainstream recognition recently [he died of Aids aged 53 in 1987]. Do you recall how you first became aware of him and is there an image from his body of work that resonates with you?
I realised this only retrospectively, but when I was 23 or 24, there was that beautiful Antony and the Johnsons album [I Am a Bird Now], with the amazing Peter Hujar picture of Candy Darling in hospital on the cover. It's such an arresting image. That must have been the first time I recall seeing one. I love going to galleries, and I always grab a handful of postcards from any gallery I go to, so I've got a massive collection of postcards. And I realised that I had got lots by Peter Hujar without knowing they were by Peter Hujar. Usually images of men in drag. They are just exquisite. Now that I've got to know him and his work, I know there's no bad picture among it. He shot everything: cows in fields, pregnant women, skyscrapers, decaying piers. When I was doing Peter Hujar’s Day in New York in spring this year, I went to the Morgan Library & Museum, where all of his stuff is, and I got to look through all of his contact sheets, which are amazing. I love his nudes. His portraits of naked men and men masturbating or aroused are just extraordinary. His eye is so unusual. They are erotic, but there's something soulful and deep.
Did you know that Hari Nef is about to play Candy?
Oh, I didn't know that. That's amazing casting.
As a gay man born in the 70s and who grew up in the 80s, I’ve always been obsessed with queer photographers and writers from those two decades. I've got all of Peter Hujar’s books. His work is so arresting and one of the things that feels so special about it is that he documented a time that's gone and most of those men are dead and were wiped out by Aids.
So appallingly.
There's such sadness lurking in the imagery, but also huge energy. Even though they are dirty and raw, there's just something glamorous. Maybe it's just because we glamourise the 70s in that way?
I think that was part of what was going on. I really do. There's such an energy, such creativity.
Tate Britain currently has The 80s: Photographing Britain, and maybe about 30% of it is queer stuff. There's something amazing about that time and the exhibition is quite beautiful.
I'll definitely go. I've seen the poster. It's really cool.
Alfred Molina said he tries to keep each of his film jobs different from the last one and you appear to be doing something similar. Is this a trick of fate or by design?
Sort of a bit of both, because you're not in control of [the scripts] you get sent or what you get asked to be involved in. I am more interested if something is different to what I've done recently, or I've never done it before. You want to keep testing yourself.
Which current queer filmmakers do you admire?
I like Tsai Ming-liang as I mentioned earlier, and I like Ira Sachs. I like Andrew Haigh. There’s a film I need to see because I know I’m going to like it called Rotting in the Sun [by Sebastián Silva]. I like Greg Araki. I love Todd Haynes. I'm sure that there are so many that I haven't seen in other countries. You can't do it all in one lifetime, can you?
It gets overwhelming, you get cultural fatigue. There’s so much stuff I still want to do, I still want to see, to watch, but you just have to stop and do one thing at a time.
You really do. I wish I could have access to everything. We get all the things that are big or supported by a big studio or streamers or whatever. But I have this hunger to seek out the things that are less easy to find.
But sometimes you put it out into the universe and they find you.
Yes, that's right. Well, maybe I'll do that more.
Interview by Tom Macklin